Cash App x Ayzenberg: Rebuilding Brand Trust In The Age Of Skepticism 

Trust has always been at the core of driving brand loyalty. Canvas8 reports that 65% of people in the UK and US agree that transparency and honesty are important factors when making decisions about a brand. Ayzenberg’s Marketing Science team recently partnered with Cash App, a leader in the peer-to-peer money transfer space—whose core tenant is “Trust”—to understand who their social media followers actually were and which messaging enhanced trust in the brand with their users. We were motivated by published research showing that erosion of trust can be attributed to data privacy concerns, misinformation and a lack of authenticity in advertising. Our project’s goal was to understand exactly what type of social media posts would build trust with Cash App’s audiences, a challenge we met by utilizing our social-forward digital anthropology approach powered by our AI-driven Brand Soulmates Technology. 

In partnership with Cash App’s Taylor Williams, Channel Marketing Lead, Ellen Tseng, Head of Social Listening and Intelligence, and Mira Mehta, Cash App Research, our Marketing Science team ran primary qualitative and quantitative research indicating that brands can build trust with their audiences by being quick and transparent in sharing important information related to security and product knowledge. This is supported by external research from Sprout Social which states that 86% of Americans believe transparency from businesses is more important than ever before. Research from Sprout Social indicates that when brands are transparent and develop a history of transparency, nearly nine in 10 people are more likely to give them a second chance after a bad experience. Furthermore, 85% of those consumers are more likely to stick with brands during a crisis. Users want to be the first to know about any potential issues or actions they can take to improve their experience with the brand—81% of people believe businesses have a responsibility to be transparent when posting on social media—higher than the standards they set for politicians, friends/family or themselves.


Results From Ayzenberg’s Cash App Audience Research 

During the in-depth interviews phase conducted with 40 core Cash App social media followers, our insight into building brand trust was refined as we discovered that developing trust also requires brands to demonstrate they are listening to their users. Ideally, content should feel personalized and relevant as if it was designed with each viewer in mind. As an awarded leader in Social Intelligence, this supports my own findings and the conclusion that other leaders in the field of Social Intelligence have been arriving at for years: that brands should implement social listening to identify and act on user feedback from comments and messages beyond just direct 1:1 consumer engagement. In order to truly engage with your brand’s fandom, you need to utilize insider language that only a brand’s consumers understand as this can help build a sense of community and belonging. This was further corroborated in a study by Epsilon which found that 80% of consumers are likelier to do business with a company that offers personalized experiences. By tailoring messages to specific interests, preferences, and behaviors, brands can demonstrate that they understand and value their customers. Furthermore, McKinsey reports that personalization can reduce acquisition costs by up to 50%, increase revenues by 5-15%, and improve marketing spend efficiency by 10-30%.  

Participants in both phases of primary research shared that being generous is another key way to earn trust. Brands should look for opportunities to surprise and delight users through contests, shoutouts, comment engagement and other creative means of giving back. Data from a study conducted by LoyaltyOne shows that 94% of customers who received a surprise gift or special recognition felt more positive about the company.   

Additionally, our conversations with social media followers confirmed our suspicions: they are acutely aware of how their engagement benefits the brand. Therefore, it’s important to show appreciation and provide value in return for their time investment. 

Finally, our discussion with the brand’s social media followers continued to support what we already knew through the work our ION team does; brands can build credibility by partnering with reputable creators, influencers and celebrities who share overlapping values and interests with their user base. Followers are more likely to trust a brand if they see familiar and respected individuals using and recommending the product or service, but these influencers must be seen as trustworthy and relevant to the brand—not just famous names. Research supports this as influencer marketing has emerged as a key strategy for building trust and authenticity; consumers are likelier to trust recommendations from people they follow and admire. Most millennials and Gen Z social media users, as indicated in a survey from Morning Consult, said they trust influencers on social media (63% report trusting influencers, up from 51% in 2019). By collaborating with content creators who align with their values and target audience, brands can tap into the trust and credibility these influencers have built with their followers. This is also key for discoverability, as 31% of social media users prefer to find out about new products through an influencer they follow—as opposed to any other format or channel—per HubSpot Blog’s 2024 Social Media Marketing Report. The numbers are particularly high among Gen Z consumers, with 43% preferring influencers as a product discovery channel.  

In today’s age of skepticism, building and maintaining trust is crucial for brands to foster loyalty and long-term success. Our research alongside Cash App highlights key strategies for cultivating trust that we at Ayzenberg have known to be true: transparency in communication, the benefits of personalized, community-centric content, social listening, and strategic influencer collaborations. By implementing these approaches, brands can create authentic connections with their audience, leading to increased customer retention and brand advocacy. As the digital landscape continues to evolve, companies that prioritize trust-building initiatives will be better positioned to weather crises, adapt to changing consumer expectations, and thrive in an increasingly competitive marketplace. Ultimately, investing in trust is not just good practice—it’s a fundamental requirement for sustainable brand growth in the modern era.


About Ayzenberg 

Ayzenberg is well-positioned to help brands navigate this new landscape of trust-building. With expertise in data-driven marketing, AI-powered personalization, and influencer partnerships through our ION team, Ayzenberg develops comprehensive, results-driven strategies that address the unique challenges and opportunities facing each brand. We use the science of psychometrics to power the most qualitatively authentic influencer connections through our cutting-edge Brand Soulmates technology and creative collaborations, enabling brands to deliver hyper-personalized experiences at scale while fostering authentic connections with their audiences.  

About Cash App 

Cash App is the money app. It’s the easy way to spend, send, and store money. Sending and receiving money is free and fast, and most payments can be deposited directly to an external bank account in just a few seconds. With Cash App, customers can also buy and sell Bitcoin instantly, get a paycheck deposited right to the app, create a unique $cashtag to share with anyone to get paid fast, and use the Cash App Card to spend the money everywhere Visa Debit is accepted. Download Cash App for free at cash.app/download. Cash App is a financial platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s external bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank pursuant to a license from Visa U.S.A., Inc. Visa is a registered trademark of Visa U.S.A., Inc. All other trademarks and service marks belong to their respective owners. 

Trust Over Transaction: Rethinking The Consumer Purchase Cycle At SXSW 2024

The SXSW 2024 panel, ‘’The Death of the Purchase Funnel,” hosted by Edelman’s Courtney Miller and featuring insights from marketing leaders including Gina Igwe from DoorDash and Mark DiCristina from MailChimp, focused on the need for evolving models of the purchase journey due to an evolution of brand-consumer dynamics and the importance of trust in the decision to purchase from one brand over another.

Panelists indicated that due to this shift in behavior, they’ve moved away from the traditional purchase funnel, towards a more relationship-driven model known as the Trust Loop.

This concept, explored at length in Edelman’s “2023 Edelman Trust Barometer Special Report: The Collapse of the Purchase Funnel,” suggests that true brand loyalty forms post-purchase, indicated by several insights including the statistic that 78% of consumers engage more deeply with brands after their initial purchase.

The Trust Loop: A New Paradigm

The Trust Loop emerges as a pivotal framework, recognizing the non-linear and ongoing nature of consumer-brand relationships. Courtney Miller, Executive Vice President and Head of U.S. Strategy at Edelman, laid the groundwork by challenging the traditional funnel’s relevance in today’s consumer landscape: “The world is changing fast… so why is it that we are still conceiving and measuring the purchase journey in the same traditional static ways we always have?” The alternative, of course, comes in the form of the Trust Loop, a model that accounts for the dynamic interplay of trust, action and engagement in fostering long-term brand loyalty.

Key Takeaways from Gina Igwe and Mark DiCristina

Gina Igwe, VP of Consumer Marketing at DoorDash, shared personal and professional insights into how DoorDash navigates the post-purchase landscape to cultivate brand loyalty. 

“I was on Instagram the other day… I purchased [a product] right away. I could not even tell you the name of the brand I purchased it from because it doesn’t matter,” she said, underscoring the impulsive nature of modern purchasing and the critical role of ongoing engagement in building a meaningful brand-consumer relationship.

Igwe also shared DoorDash’s approach to fostering lasting brand loyalty beyond the initial transaction: “In today’s market, the purchase is just the starting line. We at DoorDash have seen firsthand how post-purchase engagement, whether through personalized recommendations or exclusive offers, significantly enhances customer retention.”

Igwe further emphasized the role of sustained interactions in building trust, “Our focus extends well beyond the checkout page. It’s about creating a continuum of value that keeps consumers engaged and invested in our brand.”

Mark DiCristina, VP of Brand Experience with Intuit MailChimp, echoed the sentiment of evolving consumer expectations and the significant role of trust in the B2B sector. 

DiCristina pointed out the intricate dance of identifying relevance and audience in an era where algorithms heavily mediate consumer interactions with brands. “I think in a lot of cases, the traditional funnel serves to identify relevance and sort of find the audience… the algorithms that can identify these really targeted audiences really well,” DiCristina explained, highlighting the challenges and opportunities in adapting to the new consumer journey shaped by technology and digital platforms.

DiCristina also shared his thoughts on the transformative power of trust in building and maintaining customer relationships. 

“Trust is the bedrock of consumer loyalty in the digital age. At MailChimp, we’ve observed that customers who trust us are more likely to explore additional services, providing a tangible lift to our growth metrics,” said DiChristina, explaining how the company is building trust through transparency and authenticity: “We’re committed to being open about our processes and proactive in our communications. This transparency has been key to nurturing a trusted relationship with our users.”

The New Model: Trust as the Growth Engine

The Trust Loop posits trust not just as a static achievement but as the continuous fuel for growth, engagement and loyalty. This model is substantiated by Edelman’s finding that “78% of people are uncovering things that attract them to a brand… after the purchase,” pointing to the inception of brand loyalty and advocacy well beyond the point of sale​​.

Key statistics from Edelman’s ‘Collapse of the Purchase Funnel’ report illustrate the emerging consumer expectations and behaviors that support this model:

  • Consumers are increasingly scrutinizing brands, with 68% being more price-conscious and 58% engaging in more research before making a purchase.
  • Concerns about a brand’s impact on health (64%) and the environment (55%) are becoming more pronounced.
  • The geopolitical origin of brands plays a significant role in purchasing decisions, with 77% of consumers hesitant to buy from brands based in certain countries.

In delineating the Trust Loop, the panel—and the report—collectively emphasize the necessity for brands to actively engage consumers through trustworthy actions, transparent communication and meaningful interactions. This engagement fosters a deeper sense of loyalty and advocacy among consumers, transforming the purchase from an endpoint to a beginning.

To effectively navigate the Trust Loop and foster deeper consumer loyalty and advocacy, brands must adopt strategies that prioritize trust, transparency and ongoing engagement. 

What Does The Trust Loop Model Look Like?

The general principles of Edelman’s Trust Loop can be summarized in several key steps or phases that illustrate how trust is built, maintained and utilized to create a continuous cycle of engagement and loyalty:

  • Brand Discovery: Consumers encounter the brand for the first time, often through media, word-of-mouth, or by direct engagement. First impressions are crucial, as they lay the groundwork for trust.
  • Engagement and Interaction: After discovery, consumers engage with the brand through various channels. This phase is where the brand has the opportunity to showcase its values, transparency, and reliability, further building trust.
  • Purchase Decision: Influenced by the trust built in the previous steps, consumers decide to make a purchase. Trust plays a critical role in this decision, especially in competitive markets.
  • Post-Purchase Experience: The relationship between the consumer and the brand doesn’t end with the purchase. Post-purchase engagement, support, and the quality of the product or service itself are pivotal in reinforcing or undermining trust.
  • Trust Reinforcement: Through continued positive experiences, trust is reinforced. Brands can foster this by consistently delivering on promises, engaging in transparent communication, and responding effectively to consumer feedback.
  • Loyalty and Advocacy: Trust turns customers into loyal advocates for the brand. Loyal customers not only continue to choose the brand over others but also recommend it to others, expanding the brand’s reach and starting the Trust Loop anew with new consumers.
  • Continuous Feedback and Improvement: The loop is sustained by continuously gathering consumer feedback and using it to improve products, services, and engagement strategies. This shows consumers that the brand values their input and is committed to excellence, further deepening trust.

The Trust Loop emphasizes an ongoing, reciprocal relationship between brands and consumers, where trust is not seen as a static achievement but as a dynamic, ever-evolving aspect of the consumer-brand relationship. By focusing on building and maintaining trust throughout all interactions, brands can create a virtuous cycle that enhances loyalty, advocacy, and long-term success.

How Should Brands Approach The Trust Loop?

Drawing on insights from the “2023 Edelman Trust Barometer Special Report: The Collapse of the Purchase Funnel” and best practices in the industry, this can be accomplished through:

  1. Cultivating Trust Through Consistent Actions

Brands must demonstrate their commitment to trustworthiness through consistent, action-oriented behavior. This includes delivering on promises, maintaining high-quality standards, and addressing consumer concerns promptly. For instance, 88% of consumers emphasize trust as a critical purchasing consideration, underscoring the need for brands to act ethically and competently.

  1. Transparent Communication

Transparency is key to building and maintaining trust. Brands should openly communicate about their practices, policies, and changes. This includes being upfront about product sourcing, and environmental impact, and addressing any negative issues or crises directly. The report highlights that transparency about a brand’s climate impact and supply chain can significantly increase consumer trust (63% agreement).

  1. Engaging in Meaningful Interactions

Meaningful interactions go beyond transactional exchanges. Brands should engage consumers through personalized communication, respond to feedback, and create a community around shared values. Engaging content, interactive platforms, and community initiatives can all serve to deepen the relationship between brands and consumers. The report indicates that 79% of consumers appreciate direct interactions with brands as it allows them to evaluate the brand beyond its products.

  1. Showcasing Values and Ethics

Today’s consumers are more likely to support brands that align with their values and take stands on social and environmental issues. Demonstrating commitment to causes such as sustainability, social justice, and diversity can attract and retain consumers who share these values. For instance, 64% of consumers expect brands to make it easy to see their values when making a purchase decision.

  1. Leveraging Customer Advocacy

Word-of-mouth and customer advocacy are powerful tools in the Trust Loop. Encouraging satisfied customers to share their experiences can attract new consumers and reinforce trust. Brands can facilitate this by creating shareable content, incentivizing referrals, and featuring customer testimonials prominently.

  1. Continuous Improvement Based on Feedback

Actively seeking and acting on customer feedback demonstrates a brand’s commitment to continuous improvement and customer satisfaction. This approach not only helps in refining products and services but also shows consumers that their opinions are valued, further building trust.

  1. Personalization and Customization

Offering personalized experiences and customized products can significantly enhance consumer engagement and loyalty. Utilizing data analytics to understand consumer preferences and tailoring communications, offers, and products to meet individual needs can make consumers feel valued and understood.

By implementing these strategies, brands can effectively operate within the Trust Loop, transforming the purchase process from a linear journey into an ongoing cycle of engagement, trust-building, and mutual growth. This paradigm shift recognizes that in the modern marketplace, trust is the cornerstone of brand success, and continuous engagement is the pathway to achieving it.

Conclusion

The transition from the purchase funnel to the Trust Loop represents a broader shift in marketing toward trust-based relationships. 

This new consumer landscape demands a more nuanced, trust-based approach to marketing. The insights shared by Igwe and DiCristina, backed by the comprehensive data from Edelman’s report, indicate how the Trust Loop can be a powerful strategic blueprint for fostering lasting connections in an ever-evolving marketplace. This new model challenges marketers to rethink their strategies, placing trust, engagement, and ongoing interaction at the heart of brand growth and consumer loyalty.

Read more insights from Edelman’s report and listen to the full audio recording of the ‘Death of the Purchase Funnel’ panel here.

Audience First Marketing And A Culture Of Learning With Lauren Weinberg, CMO At Square

Lauren Weinberg is a proud boy mom, a loving dog mom—and currently—the Chief Marketing and Communications Officer at Square, driving the brand’s global marketing and communications strategy. She started her career by measuring media metrics, then entered B2B media and eventually moved over to the consumer side of marketing strategy. Lauren spent some time running her own consulting business, then landed at Square, where she has been for the past six years. Previously, she held leadership roles at Yahoo!, MTV, and AOL. Lauren sees marketing at Square as the growth engine, and her team is responsible for the brand, the perceptions, and acquiring new customers.

In this episode, Lauren and I discuss Square’s business model, how it has dimensionalized and expanded over the years, the impact of data on Square’s marketing efforts, and the incrementalism and principled risks that marketing organizations need to take to be competitive. Square started in 2009 with the purpose of enabling any individual or business to participate and thrive in the economy with the little white card reader. Now, 14 years later, they have a full ecosystem of software and hardware that allows companies of all sizes to run their entire operation through Square. With such a diverse audience, Square thrives on implementing an audience-first marketing perspective. By focusing on key audiences and tailoring messaging for each, Square can drive discoverability and cultivate relationships with a variety of different demographics and businesses in all sectors and scales. Square is very data-driven and informed, so everything they do and plans for is tied back to the overall strategy, metrics of success, and business results. Their category is competitive, so they have to be responsive and adapt quickly while also being smart with their risk-taking. Lauren tells us taking small incremental risks gives them space to break through and try new things. Thankfully, experimenting and learning from failures is in Square’s DNA, which serves them well in being innovative. Lauren’s marketing teams measure their success on how much revenue they bring in from the new customers they acquire. She tells us it’s a blessing and a curse to be in the spotlight with their contributions so directly linked to the business’s success, but she thrives on the challenge.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • The benefits and challenges of implementing “audience first” marketing
  • How incrementalism, principled risks, and a culture of learning drive innovation at Square
  • Laurens take on marketing cuts in light of an oncoming recession

Key Highlights:

  • [01:30] A cross-country pandemic move
  • [05:00] Where Lauren got her start and how she ended up at Square
  • [09:00] What is Square today
  • [10:30] How does Lauren think about marketing role in driving growth
  • [12:00] What has Lauren learned at Square over the past six years?
  • [13:20] How is Lauren using data to inform her marketing efforts?
  • [15:40] Data in understanding long-term investments
  • [16:48] Marketing mix modleing
  • [19:05] Educating a variety of audiences
  • [21:40] Audience first marketing
  • [24:30] Marketing cuts in light of an oncoming recession
  • [27:50] Benefits of constant communication and transparent decision making
  • [30:00] The impact of her first job and being a boy mom
  • [32:30] Advocate for yourself and trust your intuition
  • [34:30] Generative Ai and unlocking TikTok
  • [36:00] Trends and subcultures to watch
  • [38:45] Returning to a beginners mindset

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Alan B. Hart is the creator and host of “Marketing Today with Alan Hart,” a weekly podcast where he interviews leading global marketing professionals and business leaders. Alan advises leading executives and marketing teams on brand, customer experience, innovation, and growth opportunities. He has consulted with Fortune 100 companies but is an entrepreneur at his core, having founded or served as an executive for nine companies.

Differentiation And Design Ops With Amrita Mathur, VP Of Marketing At Superside

When Amrita Mathur joined Superside as their first marketing hire in 2019, there was no product, no platform, and no recurring revenue. She is no stranger to being called in when companies are at a strategic inflection point with their growth strategy, so she did what she spent a career in B2B marketing learning how to do: implement a marketing-led growth strategy that translated into $8 million in subscription revenue in the first year and 400% year-over-year growth since then. Amrita is passionate about community, but she denotes an important difference between community building and a sense of community. For her, it’s about a sense of goodwill and feeling like you have someone in your corner. Now as VP of Marketing, with that sense of community top of mind, she and her team are revolutionizing design at scale for ambitious brands like Amazon, Meta, Shopify, and Coinbase.

In this episode, Alan and Amrita discuss her journey from developer to Marketing VP, the moves that played a key role in taking Superside from $0 to $55 million in annual recurring revenue in just four years, and the importance of Design and Creative Ops in running an efficient and effective team. Superside is a fully managed design subscription company that serves marketing and creative teams to help them un-bottleneck their design challenges and empower them to get creative work done in a fast and efficient manner. Unlike an agency, freelance marketplace, or internal team, Superside acts as a point solution for key problems inside a company. They optimize for efficiency, speed, and scale, which allows them to cater to companies that are pivoting and changing rapidly. Amrita says an understanding of the importance of Design and Creative Ops helps Superside be an extremely efficient and effective partner. When it comes to Superside’s rapid and sustained growth, Amrita tells us they did make smart moves but also attributes some of their good fortune to good timing. One key move was figuring out their differentiation early. With marketing, the problem is well-defined, but the solutions are messy, so from the start, Superside dove deep into their best use cases and what value they would provide in that space. Another key move was the founder’s investment in marketing from day one to intentionally “build an efficient machine” for lean operations.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • What is the Superside use case?
  • How Amrita took Superside from $0 to $55 million in ARR in four years
  • The benefits of a marketing-first mindset

Key Highlights:

  • [02:05] An appreciation for “community”
  • [07:30] Path to becoming CMO of Superside
  • [10:20] What is Superside?
  • [14:00] ARR increased from $0 to $55 million in four years.
  • [18:30] No convincing is needed when the higher-ups get
  • [20:00] What are “moon shoots,” and what is an example of a win?
  • [28:10] The nexus of design, creativity, and operation
  • [31:50] A crazy (and impressive) designer to design operations ratio
  • [36:00] Being a chameleon isn’t such a bad thing.
  • [39:00] Advice for her younger self
  • [40:05] Be aware of dilution in marketing.
  • [42:40] Misconceptions around mass amounts of data

Thank you to our sponsor:

PartnerHero: to waive set-up fees, go to https://www.partnerhero.com/marketingtoday and mention “Marketing Today” during onboarding!

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Alan B. Hart is the creator and host of “Marketing Today with Alan Hart,” a weekly podcast where he interviews leading global marketing professionals and business leaders. Alan advises leading executives and marketing teams on brand, customer experience, innovation, and growth opportunities. He has consulted with Fortune 100 companies but is an entrepreneur at his core, having founded or served as an executive for nine companies.

Bringing Your Brand Purpose To Life With Raj Pudipeddi, CMO Of Align Tech, Makers Of Invisalign

Raj Pudipeddi currently serves as the Chief Product and Marketing Officer for Align Technology, makers of Invisalign, and its Managing Director for the Asia Pacific region. Through his dual roles, Raj has global responsibility for product, marketing, strategy, and clinical teams, as well as for the market development and commercial execution of all Align Technology products and services in the Asia Pacific region. Raj is an engineer by training who spent nearly 22 years at Procter & Gamble after he received his MBA. Today, he considers himself an “accidental marketer” who gets his joy out of serving the business and believes that ordinary people can deliver extraordinary outcomes when they are empowered to do so.

In this episode, Raj and I discuss the first steps he took when he arrived at Align Technology and how he has transformed the organization to deliver on the brand purpose. Align Technology encompasses several brands (Align Tech, Invisalign, Itero, and Exocad) that combine to provide end-to-end service, from generating interest to helping doctors model and use their products. They operate in a two-sided market by serving consumers and doctors, but a common purpose of “transforming smiles and changing lives” brings the two together. Align Technology is creating a whole new market and modernizing a discipline that has been stationary for hundreds of years. By ensuring the seamless integration of their products, Align Technology is able to increase throughput, drive demand in the general population, and match it in the doctor’s office.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • How seamless integrations are increasing throughput and driving demand
  • How Align is creating a new market and modernizing a stationary discipline
  • Where Raj learned his leadership style

Key Highlights:

  • [01:50] Poker pro
  • [02:45] From engineering to CMO
  • [04:50] What brought Raj to Align?
  • [06:30] The huge market opportunity
  • [08:00] Wire-crossed lovers
  • [09:15] The complexity of the system
  • [11:40] Where did Raj start when he got to Align?
  • [13:40] How does purpose make a difference?
  • [11:25] The power of a smile
  • [20:40] Lessons learned
  • [23:30] How Align is keeping the brand authentic
  • [25:00] The transformation needed to bring the vision to life
  • [26:45] Consumer marketing vs. doctor marketing
  • [29:45] Being a market maker
  • [31:45] Personalization and seamless integration to create demand
  • [33:00] Modernizing a stationary discipline
  • [34:50] Measuring the effectiveness of marketing
  • [37:50] Learning to make people feel respected and valued
  • [41:05] Stop and smell the roses.
  • [42:55] AI doesn’t preclude thinking.
  • [44:30] Brands to watch
  • [46:15] The pace of innovation is increasing.

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Alan B. Hart is the creator and host of “Marketing Today with Alan Hart,” a weekly podcast where he interviews leading global marketing professionals and business leaders. Alan advises leading executives and marketing teams on brand, customer experience, innovation, and growth opportunities. He has consulted with Fortune 100 companies but is an entrepreneur at his core, having founded or served as an executive for nine companies.

Simply Honest Ads And In-House Creatives With Hiroki Asai, Global Head Of Marketing And Creative At Airbnb

Hiroki Asai is the Head of Global Marketing at Airbnb, overseeing all marketing efforts and in-house creative teams. Hiroki grew up as a skateboarder in the 80s, loved the design aspect of that world, and started his career as a graphic designer. Eventually, he learned how to apply what he knew about creativity and design to solve business problems. He spent 18 years at Apple and served as Vice President of Global Marketing Communications and Executive Creative Director, where he was responsible for a variety of iconic marketing campaigns for a range of products, including the iMac, iPod, iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch. Now, Hiroki is responsible for maintaining Airbnb’s strong global brand and sharing the stories of our millions of hosts who offer unique homes and experiences to guests around the world.

In this episode, Hiroki and I discuss Airbnb’s post-pandemic rebalancing of spend between performance and brand, why he is a firm believer in the importance of in-house creative teams, and what he thinks makes a great campaign today. Hiroki is an advocate for the creation of in-house creative teams for the benefit of the company, brand, and creatives alike. He believes in-house teams offer the distinct advantages of having creatives closely connected to business challenges and maintaining a close integration between “in-bound” and “out-bound” aspects. When hiring creatives, Hiroki looks for individuals who can both take a broad perspective and execute artistic visions while understanding the larger business impact. He also touches on the importance of storytelling and differentiation in marketing, highlighting the need to shift the narrative through brand tactics rather than solely focusing on performance metrics. In his opinion, a good campaign shows truthfulness and real stories by embracing simplicity, authenticity, intelligent messaging, and shared experiences as a response to the proliferation of overproduced advertisements. To this point, Hiroki tells us how Airbnb’s newest campaigns around Rooms and The Host’s Passport were influenced by first-hand user experiences, leading to a transformation in people’s perceptions and overcoming hesitations they may have about staying with strangers.


In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • The benefits of in-house creative teams
  • What Hiroki looks for when he’s hiring new creative team members
  • What makes a great campaign?

Key Highlights:

  • [01:40] Hiroki’s recent travel
  • [02:50] From skateboarder to graphic designer to CMO
  • [05:30] Coming to Airbnb
  • [06:40] Hiroki’s view on in-house creative
  • [08:20] Advantages of in-house creatives
  • [09:50] What to look for when hiring an in-house creative team
  • [12:00] “The Great Rebalancing”: shifting post-pandemic marketing mix
  • [14:00] The interplay between the ethos and the product
  • [15:50] What makes a good campaign?
  • [19:50] Airbnb Rooms
  • [25:15] The Hart Family’s Airbnb experience
  • [30:20] Advice for your younger self
  • [31:05] Close the gap between design and marketing.
  • [32:45] Brands to watch
  • [33:55] Marketing shouldn’t be your differentiator.

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Alan B. Hart is the creator and host of “Marketing Today with Alan Hart,” a weekly podcast where he interviews leading global marketing professionals and business leaders. Alan advises leading executives and marketing teams on brand, customer experience, innovation, and growth opportunities. He has consulted with Fortune 100 companies but is an entrepreneur at his core, having founded or served as an executive for nine companies.

Striking The Balance Between Intuition And Information With Oded Netzer, Co-Author Of “Decisions Over Decimals”

Oded Netzer is a world-renowned expert in data-driven decision-making. He serves as the Vice Dean of Research and the Arthur J. Samberg Professor of Business at Columbia Business School. As the son of a Holocaust survivor, Oded is the first in his family to attend college. After graduation, he spent some time working in a chicken house but quickly decided that wasn’t for him. After a quick stop at a consulting firm, he returned to college to climb the academic research ladder and pursue a career in education. Currently, he splits his time between teaching as an affiliate of the Columbia University Data Science Institute and consulting as an Amazon Scholar. He has published dozens of papers in the world’s leading marketing and management science journals, and his award-winning research is widely read and highly cited.

In this episode, Oded and I discuss “Decisions Over Decimals,” Oded’s latest co-authored book with Christopher Frank, Vice President of the Global Advertising and Brand Management team at American Express, and Paul Magnone, Head of Global Strategic Alliances at Google, who are also professors at Columbia. Having worked on the front lines and taught future executives, they identified two data myths that served as the inspiration for this book. Oded presents these myths and explores the three core pillars of quantitative intuition covered in the book, highlighting how marketers can improve decision-making by understanding these concepts.

Oded advises against the inclination to rush to find a solution and instead encourages spending more time understanding the problem. According to Oded, a well-thought-out problem is already half-solved. This interview and the book emphasize the significance of asking insightful questions and properly defining the problem. This approach is evident in the emergence of Prompt Engineers for tools like ChatGPT, where precise questioning leverages quantitative intuition to achieve desired outcomes.

The conversation also touches upon unstructured data and its implications for marketers in terms of analysis, decision-making, customer listening, and demonstrating that marketing is not just a cost but can also drive revenue.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • “Decisions Over Decimals”: Why this book and why now?
  • What we should be thinking about in terms of good data-based decision-making
  • How quantitative intuition is relevant to Prompt Engineers using tools like ChatGPT

Key Highlights:

  • [01:50] The son of a Holocaust survivor
  • [03:45] From the chicken house to the university classroom
  • [06:30] Why this book and why now?
  • [09:25] Three pillars of quantitative intuition
  • [16:30] “It’s not that I’m so smart; it’s just that I stay with problems longer.”
  • [18:00] Analyst in Wonderland
  • [21:00] Prompt Engernerrs
  • [23:15] What is so special about ChatGPT?
  • [25:45] The best is yet to come with AI.
  • [28:00] How should we think about unstructured data?
  • [30:50] Connecting marketing with unstructured data
  • [35:20] Gen Z pushing for “doing well by doing good”
  • [38:00] What excites Oded in the marketing space now?
  • [39:55] Travel is the best teacher.
  • [40:50] Enjoy the journey.
  • [41:30] Generative AI and creating a win-win
  • [42:10] Brands to watch
  • [44:30] Gen Z and AI are driving the future

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Alan B. Hart is the creator and host of “Marketing Today with Alan Hart,” a weekly podcast where he interviews leading global marketing professionals and business leaders. Alan advises leading executives and marketing teams on brand, customer experience, innovation, and growth opportunities. He has consulted with Fortune 100 companies but is an entrepreneur at his core, having founded or served as an executive for nine companies.

Establishing A Mutually Beneficial Partnership Model With Guillaume Bouvard, CMO At Extend

Guillaume Bouvard is the COO, CMO, and co-founder of Extend. He founded the company with two friends and credits their success to complementary skill sets, trust, shared values, and education. Before starting Extend, Guillaume spent 12 years at American Express in various roles, advising the C-Suite as a leader of the Strategic Planning Group for several years. Before Amex, Guillaume led marketing efforts at Capital One and earned an MBA from the MIT Sloan School of Management.

In this episode, Guillaume and I discuss what Extend does, why it uniquely benefits marketers and agencies, and how they utilize marketing within their B2B2B model. Extend is a platform that turns business credit cards into a full spend management platform. They do not compete with banks but rather partner with them and empower them to offer better add-on products to their clients. Those banks then have to give Extend access to those clients, the real end users. This B2B2C or B2B2B model has unique challenges. Extend must be strategic about how it markets and communicates to its banking partners to gain access to cardholders and ensure the partnership is beneficial for all parties. Guillaume and his co-founders believe that effective marketing efforts continue well after customers walk in the door. Whether it be through cross-selling or continued engagement, you have to get them, keep them, and increase their usage. The nature of marketing is understanding how to create a strategy to influence consumers. Guillaume tells us that marketers and marketing agencies are a large portion of Extend users, and he outlines several use cases that highlight why.


In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • Guillaume’s founding story and how he has found success with his two other friends
  • What Extend does today in the virtual card and payment spaces
  • How Extend conceptualizes marketing to support their goals

Key Highlights:

  • [02:00] A friendship/business partner success story
  • [05:37] Guillaume’s career path
  • [08:20] What does Extend do?
  • [09:40] Extend isn’t competing with banks; it is partnering with them.
  • [11:30] How does extending help marketers specifically?
  • [17:20] Getting banking partners to promote Extend
  • [22:40] Halo benefits
  • [24:10] The value added for banking partners
  • [25:40] Organizing marketing to support GTM
  • [29:05] Measuring the impact of marketing
  • [32:30] Being pulled in two directions
  • [37:30] Advice to your younger self
  • [38:50] Everyone is talking about AI.
  • [40:40] Brands to watch
  • [42:50] The landscape is evolving. Marketers must do the same.

Resources Mentioned:

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 Connect with Marketing Today and Alan Hart:

Post-Production Credits:


Alan B. Hart is the creator and host of “Marketing Today with Alan Hart,” a weekly podcast where he interviews leading global marketing professionals and business leaders. Alan advises leading executives and marketing teams on brand, customer experience, innovation, and growth opportunities. He has consulted with Fortune 100 companies but is an entrepreneur at his core, having founded or served as an executive for nine companies.

Brands Navigate Constant Disruption By Reimagining Marketing’s Role

According to a new report based on a survey of leaders of the Consumer Goods Forum, a group of 400 major retailers, manufacturers and service providers across more than 70 countries, brands are facing the formidable challenges of today’s marketplace by finding creative ways of driving revenue through a transformed approach to marketing.


The New Role Of Marketers: Navigating Uncertainty, Driving Innovation, Optimizing Spend

According to the report, “Pursuit Of Harmony In Turmoil: Working Together To Make A Difference,” developed in collaboration with EY, brands face a slew of growth barriers that require leaders to adjust to constant, disruptive change.

“Companies are forced to make tradeoffs between margin versus growth, investment versus cost, and price versus purpose,” the report reads, with some of the largest producers of consumer products in the world having to “strike a balance between rising costs, priceconscious consumers, shareholders’ needs, and their commitments to sustainable longterm growth.”

Brands are doing this by investing in new business models and a digital infrastructure that includes creating cross-functional teams that often place the onus for digital transformation on CMOs and by enacting new mandates to drive revenue amidst economic uncertainty. In a recent EY survey, seventy percent of CMOs stated that their roles had begun to blend with that of a chief digital officer, thereby increasing their responsibilities. That tracks with the new shift among business leaders toward harnessing the power of CMOs to drive revenue-focused optimization processes across the entire organization.

Dirk Van de Put, chairman and CEO of Mondelez International Inc., a brand with over $26 billion in annual sales in 160 countries, sees the challenges that businesses face as transforming how sales and marketing teams interact and are defined and driven by digital innovation, per the report.

“Sales these days is all about Revenue Growth Management and digital tools,” Van de Put said. “It’s no longer about talking well and being in front of your client. Our next CMO could come from our digital group rather than somebody that grew up in brand management.”

Despite these shifts in duties, most CMOs in EY’s recent study reported that they had to petition for digital funding as needed, with 64 percent stating that their peers in finance “found it difficult to accept the unplanned nature of marketing expenses.”

That “difficulty” may be linked to many CMOs’ experience of flat budgets, even amid inflation.

Source: Gartner

According to a May 2023 report from Gartner, CMOs must do more with less while driving digital innovation and ensuring that branding duties are maintained. At the same time, new sales pressure due to marketplace uncertainty is making long-term, customer-focused strategy management challenging.

“In 2023, CMOs need to become a new type of enterprise leader,” said Ewan McIntyre, chief of research and VP analyst in the Gartner Marketing practice. “This goes beyond serving at the helm of the brand but also assuming a more business-focused role that pivots into a period of investing for profitability versus growth. Those that carry on status-quo will face significant challenges in the near-term.”

According to a LinkedIn global survey of C-level executives and 494 CMOs from late 2022, 77 percent of CMOs report feeling pressure to “prove their campaigns are providing an enhanced short-term return on investment.” Their feelings are likely based on fact: A survey of 1,619 brand marketers by Marketing Week revealed that 37 percent saw a marked increase in ROI tracking in 2022. Another 31 percent stated they would likely have to curb their creativity while 30 percent said they would have to operate more reactively.

With 75 percent of marketers reporting that they feel pressure to cut MarTech spending, delivering on performance and engaging customers while juggling innovation means a renewed focus on the customer. But today, optimizing customer experience is not enough.

Decoding The “Disrupted” Consumer

It’s no secret that consumers are concerned about inflation, but for marketers seeking to deliver on a new ROI mandate, those concerns make performance more complicated. Per EY’s “Pursuit Of Harmony In Turmoil: Working Together To Make A Difference,” 74 percent of consumers are concerned about the rising cost of living, and 56 percent are worried about their ability to purchase household necessities. Fifty-four percent also expect rising costs to worsen in the next six months. With 67 percent of surveyed consumers reporting that they now try to repair rather than replace items and nearly one-third shifting away from brand-name products, marketers have to do more than stoke brand loyalty—they have to focus on amplifying consumers’ willingness to spend at all.

“Consumers don’t just shift based on the way they buy; they shift their opinions faster than you think,” Van de Put said. “Since we are in such a period of turmoil, we are seeing big shifts in the mindset of consumers. There’s a change in shopping habits. They want to try more things. What was true before the pandemic and this inflationary period won’t necessarily be true after.”

The Takeaway For Marketers

First-quarter sales figures for 2023 show that consumers are spending on experiences and products and services that deliver unique value. They are even willing to cut back on tried-and-true brands or go-to products to try new things or brands that align with what matters most to them now. Consumers’ willingness to splurge in the midst of inflation worries suggests that marketers’ insights into their audience’s needs and priorities can convert them back to their brands.

That means it may be back to basics for consumer engagement—allowing CMOs to leverage their expertise to bring back “disrupted” consumers with a combination of value and values—a heightened expression of what makes a brand worth its price. That could occur either by alignment with ESG principles that drive much of Gen Z purchasing, for example, or the overall emotional impact of the product or the experience of it.

Marketing Is A Team Sport With Katie Krum, SVP And CMO At PURE Insurance

Katie Krum started her career at PURE in 2006 as the sixth employee at the insurance start-up. She played a significant role in shaping the brand, and throughout this process, she discovered her passion for marketing. Katie eventually left to develop her skill set at Nickelodeon, Marriott, Under Armour, and Weber Shandwick. She now leads a “small but mighty team” as the CMO at PURE, where she oversees all aspects of marketing communications and PR. One of the driving factors that drew her back to PURE was her incredible boss and her determination to explore innovative approaches to generate interest in insurance. She firmly believes in the power of collaboration, as she sees teams achieve more together than as individuals.

In this episode, Katie and I discuss the challenges involved in transitioning PURE from a company to a brand tailored specifically for high-net-worth families. Katie highlights the significant impact that service experiences have on driving progress. Katie’s expertise from other industries is instrumental in bringing attention to PURE’s distinctive “membership model” that sets them apart. Despite boasting a strong membership base with high renewal rates and an impressive net promoter score, consumer research revealed a lack of understanding of what PURE is all about to prospects and what they do for their members. This led to the launch of the “Join the Club” campaign, the development of a mobile-first brand book, and the redefinition of “excellent service.” As a first-time CMO, Katie infuses the insurance industry, which typically lacks excitement, with her enthusiasm and fresh perspective. She actively spearheads transformative changes and anticipates significant shifts in marketing team structure, performance evaluation, and the utilization of AI.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • Why Katie returned to PURE
  • What sets PURE apart in the insurance industry
  • The benefits of having marketing communications and PR handled by one team

Key Highlights:

  • [01:25] Katie’s dearest dad
  • [05:00] Starting at PURE, leaving and learning, then coming back
  • [10:15] Why did she come back to insurance?
  • [12:30] What does PURE do?
  • [15:15] How is Katie building the brand?
  • [18:05] Research and ideation inform the plan.
  • [19:10] The history of insurance and what makes it PURE
  • [21:10] Benefits of blending marketing and PR into one team
  • [25:10] First-time CMO excitement
  • [26:00] Marketing is a team sport where we embrace crazy ideas.
  • [28:50] Pat yourself on the back and be the one that shows up.
  • [31:20] 3 important topics
  • [33:45] State and brands to watch
  • [36:45] The importance of post-pandemic reconnection

Resources Mentioned:

 Follow the podcast:

 Connect with the Guest:

 Connect with Marketing Today and Alan Hart:

Post-Production Credits:


Alan B. Hart is the creator and host of “Marketing Today with Alan Hart,” a weekly podcast where he interviews leading global marketing professionals and business leaders. Alan advises leading executives and marketing teams on brand, customer experience, innovation, and growth opportunities. He has consulted with Fortune 100 companies but is an entrepreneur at his core, having founded or served as an executive for nine companies.